Minutes Of TSEWA Core Gp Meeting Held On 20 Sep 2017 At 143, Vayupuri, Secunderabad


The following members were present:-

  1. Brig CS Vidyasagar (Rtd)                   – President
  2. Cmde Sudheer Parakala (Rtd)          – Vice President & Member Charity Division
  3. Sgt Lawrence Joseph (Rtd)                – Vice President
  4. Col Dr GB Sethi (Rtd)                         – General Secretary
  5. Lt Col G Parvathesam (Rtd)               – Treasurer
  6. Gp Capt CRR Sastry (Rtd)                  – Joint Secretary
  7. H/ Capt B Joseph (Rtd)                       – Joint Secretary
  8. H/ Capt M Narasimha Reddy(Rtd)   – President, TSEWA Telangana
  9. Col MK Veeramani (Rtd)                    – Member & Head Charity Division
  10. Cdr SK Vasudeva Rao (Rtd)              – Legal Advisor & Member
  11. Lt Col N Ravi Chowdhary (Rtd)        – Legal Advisor & Member
  12. Lt Col Vijay Chandra Salins (Rtd)     – Administrator TSEWA Website
  13. Sqn Ldr Amitav Chatterjee (Rtd)      – President, TSEWA, Maharashtra
  14. Sub R Ranga Reddy (Rtd)                  – Member
  15. Lt Col Hari (Rtd)                                 – Member

Opening the discussion President welcomed all. He welcomed Sqn Ldr Amitav Chatterji (Rtd) the newly appointed President, TSEWA, Maharashtra and  introduced him  to all. He gave a brief account of all the good work being done by Sqn Ldr Amitav Chatterji. President was very confident that within one year Sqn Ldr Amitav will enroll at least 300 members from Maharashtra.  As per sequence of conduct of the Core Committee cum Executive Committee meeting, he requested General Secretary to give his points, followed by Treasurer. Then all members and finally President will give his points.

Points from General Secretary:

Membership : General Secretary informed that our membership has crossed 6700 as on date. He wanted all members to help in bringing more members, so that we achieve the target of 10,000 members.
Action to be taken by  all members.

AFT Cases: General Secretary informed that after final re – checking all the documents of Special Family Pension to single ladies who lost their husbands in service have been sent to Brig SKS Rana, VSM, Head Legal Division two days back.
General Secretary informed that for AFT 5 (Enhanced Rate of Ordinary Family Pension to wives of deceased JCOs and OR), 146 members have joined. Since most of the members are from Gujarat, Kerala, AP, Telengana, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu etc, Brig SKS Rana, VSM, is trying to get a Lead Litigant from or around Delhi.
General Secretary informed that all documents of Hony Nb Sub – 2 case and Col TS – 2 case are almost ready. He requested one member of the Core Committee to check the documents finally, before dispatching them to Brig SKS Rana VSM. After final checking three cases can be sent to Brig SKS Rana, VSM. President, Gp Capt Sastry and Lt Col Vijay Salins volunteered to check the documents soon.
General Secretary said that TSEWA has taken up AFT – 21 i.e While the Govt of India has given pensions of JCOs / OR at maximum of Fitment Table in SAI 1/S/2008 from Jul 2009 to Jun 2014 (five years), the arrears vide Circular 568 were paid at minimum of fitment table thereby depriving them of correct arrears. 93 members have already joined. By the time the documents are checked by Gp Capt Sastry and the Treasurer and by the time President makes the legal brief, we may be able to get 100 members.

For AFT 28: Incorrect fixation of pay of Majors. The initial pay of Majors from Jan 1996 was fixed at Rs 11600 vide SAI 1/S/1998 where as it should have been Rs 11,925 vide Govt of India, Min of Def letter dated 29 Feb 2000. We have got 106 members as petitioners in this case. Sqn Ldr SS Rawat initiated the case for which All India Coordinator is Maj PM Goswami. The case is closed and we are not accepting any more petitioners. The Legal brief is ready. We will be sending the documents to Brig SKS Rana, VSM, Head Legal Division of TSEWA for his final checks and then handing them over to one of the two advocates he selected at AFT Delhii.

Lt Col Ravi Chaudhary has floated an e mail on the same case to sensitize the environment with good intentions. Since this mail has caused some confusion in the TSEWA community and petitioners are approaching us with clarification, General Secretary requested that such mails in future be sent to the President first and he will float in the social media duly amending them.
Action to be taken by Brig SKS Rana VSM, President, Gp Capt CRR Sastry, Lt Col Vijay Salins, Treasurer & General Secretary.

TSEWA Blog: General Secretary said that he has already asked Mrs Rekha Sekhri to introduce Scrolling of  “ ESMs to join TSEWA and get benefits”.
Action to be taken by  Mrs Rekha Sekhri

Donation: General Secretary intimated that Col DD Pandey donated Rs 10,001/- to TSEWA for Charity.  General Secretary added that generous donor (from 40th NDA course) who does not want to be named has donated Rs 72,000/= for one year. He has committed that every year he will increase his donation by 50%. The positive gesture of Col Pandey and unknown donor (his particulars are known to President, General Secretary and Treasurer as per his wish) was appreciated by all. All thanked both of them.

Sending mails on Policy Matters: General Secretary wanted only President should send any e mail on any Policy matter to the environment and none else. This is for strict compliance. This is to ensure there is no contradiction if all of us start sending mails on policy matters. This was agreed by all.
Action to be taken by all concerned.

Awareness Camp at Chandigarh: Due to some un – avoidable circumstances, the Awareness camp planned to be held at  Chandigarh is cancelled. As and when an awareness camp is orgnaised in Punjab, Col Raghbir Singh, President, TSEWA, Punjab will inform all of the dates of holding such an Awareness camp. Tickets bought for President and Treasurer had to be cancelled. However the Villupuram awareness camp in Oct 2017 stands.
Action to be taken by  General Secretary, Treasurer, Cmde Sudheer  Parakala, Col MK Veeramai, Lt Col PN Krishnan, Col Jayaraj Naidu, W/O Thiru Chelvam 

Points from Treasurer

Treasurer confirmed that all the decisions taken during the Extra Ordinary General Body Meeting, about TSEWA accounting has been implemented. He has also completed the SOP on accounting. Now  Lt Col Dr  Bhaskara Reddy can carry out the internal audit any time.
Action to be taken by  Lt Col Dr Bhaskara Reddy, Treasurer

Only one Bank Account as against the Present  Four : During the Extra Ordinary General Body Meeting held in Sep 2017 and also during many meetings convened thereafter with our Chartered Accountant, this point was discussed. Then only it was decided that we should have four bank accounts for smooth functioning and also not to have any confusion at a very later date. On a suggestion from a few members, that we should have only one Bank Account, but many heads in our Books of Account (cash book) for ease of operation. On this Cmde Sudheer Parakala was asked to discuss this point with his Auditor friend, if required our Treasurer can meet Cmde Sudheer Parakala’s auditor friend and discuss this point.
Action to be taken by Cmde Sudheer Parakala,  Treasurer

Points from Cmde Sudheer Parakala 

Cmde Sudheer Parakala brought out that one of his friends Cmde KS Sandhu in Mumbai is prepared to help TSEWA in Mumbai. He has informed that around 1,000 ESMs are living near his area of Nerul. He is willing to talk to them and make them members of TSEWA, provided President, Cmde Sudheer Parakala, Sqn Ldr Amit Chatterji are prepared to go to Mumbai, organize an awareness campt at Mumbai. Cmde KS Sandhu is prepared to organize a meeting with the ESMs. Cmde KS Sandhu’s gesture was very well appreciated and as and when he organizes a meeting our team will go and do the needful in this regard.
Action to be taken by Cmde Sudheer Parakala, Sqn Ldr Amit Chatterji, President

Points from Col MK Veeramani 

No Legal Fees from Wives  of Deceased NCOs & OR of all the Three Services: Col Veeramani informed Brig Vinayak Ramnarayan, VSM, President, TSEWA, Central Zone, MP & Chattisgarh and Col Srikantha Seshadri, President, Karnataka forwarded a suggestion that TSEWA may consider to waive off legal fees of Rs 1,000 from wives of JCOs and OR as a kind gesture as some of them are unable to pay. The views of each of the Core Committee members were sought on this issue. The unanimous recommendation of the Core Committee was that TSEWA may exempt wives of deceased NCOs & OR from payment of legal fees in future.
At this juncture, the General Secretary informed that for AFT – 5 : Enhanced Rate of Ordinary Family pension to wives of deceased JCOs and OR, no legal fees is collected. Brig AK Srivastava, VSM at behest of Brig SKS Rana, VSM agreed to argue the case for gratis. However, TSEWA will pay Brig AK Srivastava, VSM, administrative cost of the legal fees.
This recommendation of Core Committee was put to vote to the Executive committee of seven members. All the seven members from the President to Joint Secretaries approved that TSEWA henceforth should not charge any legal fees from wives of deceased NCOs and OR of all three services.
The President further clarified that henceforth such requests from any members should be sent to Col MK Veeramani, Head of Charity Division as such acts come under charity. The Charity division will take appropriate decision within their financial powers. For any activity beyond the powers of Charity Division, it will be put up to the Executive Committee for approval.

Charitable Activities: Col MK Veeramani, Head Charity Division informed that he has sent an e – mail to all the TSEWA members who are having e – mail ids about recommending names of deserving cases both ESMs and civilians for financial help from TSEWA. He has given all the details how to go about, like the case done for Ms Sandhya and Ms Aishwarya with videos and documentary evidence. He has asked them to send the cases to the respective Zonal Presidents for further necessary.
He has also sent a detailed e mail to all the Zonal Presidents i.e District and State Presidents asking them also to recommend the deserving cases. He has also sent an SMS also to all the Zonal Presidents in this regard. He said that he has asked them to forward their detailed recommendations by end of October 2017 to the Charity Division for processing the case, so that the money is spent well before 31 Mar 2018. He said that he will also speak to the Zonal Presidents and State Presidents in this regard.
Action to be taken by Col Veeramani, Cmde Sudheer Parakala, Air Cmde GS Nijjar, all Zonal Presidents, State Presidents and all active members of TSEWA.

Point from Lt Col N Ravi Chaudhary 

Lt Col Ravi Chaudhary brought out a representation of wife of serving soldier from 17 Kumaon. He after availing his annual leave did not rejoin the unit. The lady is a tribal woman from Bhadrachalam dist of Telangana. The unit as per the laid down procedure declared him  a deserter by court of inquiry after 30 days of absence. She works in an Anganwadi in remote area of Bhadrachalam district of Telangana. She is paid measly pension of Rs 300 per month and has three children to bring up. He has requested to take up her case for which he needs a police report of missing. For this the lady has to file a FIR that her husband is missing. She is not getting any pension as the unit has declared her husband as a deserter and not a missing person. He has put in more than 15 years of service.
The President informed that we had employed Mrs Sarita whose husband was an Ex-Serviceman and went missing after some time. She lodged a police complaint and after getting Not traceable report from Police, she took it up with Records, EME Secunderabad for sanction of ordinary family penson. She now gets ordinary family pension as her husband is declared as missing.
The general consensus is that someone has to go to her place in Bhadrachalam and coax her to file a FIR of missing of husband. Once the police gives the Not traceable report, then we can make Records Kumaon to take up a case for sanction ordinary family pension by PCDA (Pensoin) Allahabad  to this tribal lady.
H/ Capt B Joseph, Joint Secretary, TSEWA volunteered to go to her place in Bhadrachalam dist and get the police Non Traceable report after he comes back from attending the awareness camp at AD Arty Centre, Gopalpur, Orissa. This kind gesture of Capt B Joseph was appreciated by all.

Financial Assistance to Wife of Missing Serving Soldier:The Executive committee was moved by the pathetic state of wife of a serving soldier who is missing since few years. They unanimously recommended for financial assistance to Charity Division to sanction Rs 5,000 within their powers to be given to Hony Capt B Joseph who can hand it over to the lady.
The Charity Division considered her condition and sanctioned Rs 5000/- which is the power of the Charity Division. This money will be taken by H/ Capt Joseph and will be handed over to her. A video of handing over the financial assistance in the presence of few of her relatives be taken as proof and also a receipt for audit purposes.
Action to be taken by H/ Capt Joseph, Charity Division, Treasurer, General Secretary, Lt Col Ravi Chaudhary.

Points from President 

Presentation on Effects of 7th CPC on Pre – 2016 Pensioners, Post – 2016 Pensioners, Disabled & War Injured Soldiers and Serving Soldiers: President gave a very detailed presentation with MS Power Point slides on the effects of 7thCPC. The Govt of India issued two letters on 04 Sep 2017 on disability pension for Pre – 2016 pensioners and Post – 2016 Pensioners and one letter dated 05 Sep 2017 on the Notional Pay Method of fixation of pension to Pre – 2016 pensioners. He explained both the methods of pension fixation of pre – 2016 pensioners with relevant examples i.e.

  1. 2.57 method.
  2. Notional pay method

Since he had already explained 2.57 method in an earlier presentation and all pre – 2016 pensioners are drawing pension w.e.f Jan 2016 which is OROP pension x 2.57, he will not dwell too much on that. Since most of the pensioners are not aware of what is the Notional Pay method he will make a detailed presentation on this method i.e. Notional Pay Method of pension fixation for Pre – 2016 pensioners. He stated if a soldier is retired in say 3rd CPC his pay at that time will be enhanced notionally as on Jan 1986 as if he is serving in 4th CPC. This will be repeated for 5th CPC and 6th CPC. Finally the notional pay in 7th CPC will be arrived at. In each of the intervening CPCs the notional pay = notional pay of previous CPC x Multiplication Factor of next CPC. He took the pay of Lt Col retired in 3rd CPC with three increments and showed how his notional pay in 4th CPC as on Jan 1996 was arrived by equating his pay of 3rd CPC with that of 4th CPC. In a similar manner his notional pay from 4th CPC to 5th CPC and from 5th CPC to 6th CPC with the help of data given in SAIs of the relevant CPCs.

He explained IOR, Multiplication factor as opted in 7th CPC etc in detail. He referred to  C & AG report published in Sep 2017 which said the banks have underpaid Rs 106 crores to about 21,435 pensioners in one month. The Reason for such underpayment as found out by C & AG are :-

a. Non Payment of correct pension.
b. Restoration of Commuted portion,
c. Wrong Revision of Disability Allowance.
d. Non Revision of Fixed Medical Allowance etc,

 The statistics of C & AG of one month indicates that in Armed Forces every second pensioner is not getting his correct pension from the banks. Therefore it is the responsibility of TSEWA to educate the ESM community of their correct pension.

He by his analysis of Govt of India letter dated 05 Sep 2017 argued that for pre – 2016 pensioners the Notional Pay method is beneficial.

He showed how Min of Def letter dated 05 Sep 2017 and Defence Pay Matrix 2016 gives rise to two major anomalies which results in retired solider getting less pension and serving soldiers getting less basic pay. The anomalies arise out of the way the Notional Pay method of pension fixation has been made for Defence services personnel.

(a) Anomaly No 1: Notional Pay Method of Pension Fixation of Pre – 2016 Pensioners.

(i)   The Govt of India took the pay of soldiers retired in 3rd CPC and worked out the Notional pay in 4th CPC by applying multiplication factor. The same was repeated for 5th CPC and 6th CPC. This method of notional pay is correct for civilians. But Armed Forces pensioners were sanctioned OROP by treating all of them as if they are notionally retired in Calendar year 2013. Therefore date of retirement of all Armed Forces pensioners is calendar year 2013. The Notional pay for Armed Forces pensioners is from 6th CPC (2013) to 7th CPC (2016) and not from 3rd CPC to 7th CPC.

(ii)   He gave a simple illustration of how Notional pay method for Armed Forces Pensioners is to be worked out as under:-

OROP Pension for Lt Col with 32 years and above – Rs 34,765 pm.
Pension w.e.f Jul 2014 = 0.50 x (Pay in Pay Band + Grade Pay + MSP of Rs 6000)
2 x pension = Pay in pay band + Grade pay + MSP
Matrix Pay         = Pay in Pay Band + Grade pay
=  (2 x Pension) – MSP of Rs 6000
=  (2 x 34765) – 6000
= Rs 63,530 pm
Matrix pay in Jan 2016 = 2.57 x 63530 = Rs 1,63,272 pm
Matrix pay in Def Pay Matrix for Lt Col with 32 years and above = Rs 1,67,700 pm
Notional Pay = Rs 167700+ MSP of Rs 15500 = Rs 1,83,200
Pension = 0.50 x 183200 = Rs 91,600 pm
Pension by 2.57 Method = Rs 24765 x 2.57 = Rs 89,346

Gain by Notional Pay Method = Rs 91600 – 89346 = Rs 2,254 pm

(iii)   He also showed how the Notional Pay method of pension fixation is beneficial for all ranks.

(iv)   Notional Pay method for post – 2013 soldiers is definitely better.

(v)   Gp Capt CRR Sastry, Joint Secretary concurred with this argument. He stated that Govt of India, Ministry of Defence gave pensions based on calendar year 2013 and for Notional pay method they are taking Jan 2006 which is totally illogical and incorrect. He agreed to study this issue along with Lt Col N Ravi Chowdhary, advocate of TSEWA in AFT Chennai and Circuit bench Secunderabad.

(vi)   Once Gp Capt CRR Sastry and Lt Col N Ravi Chowdhary inform that it is a fit case to be filed in Circuit bench,Secunderabad, then environment will  be informed and those convinced of this argument can join the legal case of TSEWA.

(b)    Anomaly No 2. Entry Pay Method of Pay Fixation in Def Pay Matrix Pay 2016.

(i)    The President in his presentation explained what is entry pay adopted by 7th CPC and how it is not applicable to Armed Forces personnel. The Entry pay for Civilians is based on residency period between direct recruits and departmental promotes. The Direct recruits through UPSC gets advantage over the departmental promotes who take five to six years to reach the cadre of direct recruits. The Entry pay is based on the residential period departmental promote to serve before he is equated with Direct recruit.
(ii)   In Armed Forces there is no system of departmental promotes. To become an officer even JCOs to OR have to face Service Selection Boards, medical tests by Military / Command Hospitals, undergoing officer training in OTA and join the unit in the lowest officer rank of Lt.
(iii)  Promotion system in Armed Forces by promotion  is passing promotion examinations Part A to Part D. Unless the officers pass these promotion examinations they are not promoted to time scale ranks of Capt, Maj and Lt Col.
(iv) Unlike in civil service, every officer does not become a Colonel. Only those cleared for promotion by duly constituted selection boards get promoted as Colonel after being cleared by Military Hospital as fit for promotion. There is no residency period to become Col from rank of Lt Col. All Lt Cols do not become Cols. Similarly all Cols do not get promoted to rank of Brig and this goes on right upto Army Cdr. Therefore the concept of residency period adopted for Armed Forces officers is illogical and untenable.
(v) The Entry pay for three ranks of Lt, Brig and Lt Gen has  been taken as Minimum pay of these ranks in 6th CPC as given in SAI 2/S/2008 which is the correct method. The Matrix pay in Def pay matrix is = Minimum pay in 6thCPC x IOR.
(vi) The Entry pay for ranks from Capt to Colonel and Maj Gen is lesser than minimum pay in SAI 2/S/2008. These officers are likely to suffer reduced basic pay ranging between  Rs 5,000 to Rs 11,500 depending upon the rank and length of service w.e.f Jan 2016.
(vii)  In the case of Defence Service Officers, the Entry pay should be Minimum pay of the rank as given in SAI 2/S/2008 as was done for Lts, Brigs and Lt Gens.

(c)    The MS PP slides of the presentation have been uploaded on the TSEWA blog. Members of TSEWA are requested to go through these slides and point out any arithmetical mistakes to Brig CS Vidyasagar (Rtd) at his e-mail id: csvidyasagar@gmail.com.

There being no other points, President thanked all and the meeting was declared as closed

Brig CS Vidyasagar (Rtd)
President, TSEWA

22 Sep 2017


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